Emily Lane, Bret Schnitker, Valentin Karabanov
October 24, 2022
Emily Lane 00:09
Welcome to Clothing Coulture. I'm Emily Lane.
Bret Schnitker 00:12
I'm Brett Schnitker.
Emily Lane 00:13
We speak with experts where we explore the global dynamics that shape trends in the fashion industry.
Bret Schnitker 00:19
Brought to you by Stars Design Group, a global production and design house with over 30 years of industry experience.
Emily Lane 00:35
Welcome back to another episode of Clothing Coulture. I'm very excited, Bret, about today's conversation.
Bret Schnitker 00:42
Yeah, me too and excited to have a guest today.
Emily Lane 00:44
I know this is gonna be a first for us.
Bret Schnitker 00:47
Yeah, neither of us are on the hot seat so that's cool.
Emily Lane 00:50
We have invited Valentin Karabanov I hope I pronounced that correctly. Yes. Okay. Wonderful. He is coming to us from Tel Aviv, Israel today. Valentin, we had the pleasure of discovering on LinkedIn, seeing some of the innovative fashion design that he is doing right now utilizing 3D, 3D art. And it's actually beyond the traditional garments that we're used to seeing in today's industry, but truly digital clothing and we were like, "Oh my goodness, we need to have a conversation with this innovator." So Valentin, before we get into what you're doing today, I'd love to get a little background on your history and fashion. You know, what, what got you into this industry? And how did you begin?
Valentin 00:56
Yes! Yeah, first of all, Hello, everyone. And thank you very much for having me. I'm really excited to be here. To be honest, this is my first podcast, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed so it wil go okay. And, you know, anyway, you will be able, you know, to cut it.
Bret Schnitker 02:09
Pure live, dude, whatever you say is going straight out to the masses.
Valentin 02:18
Okay, so let's, let's, you know where to start? You know, actually, I have 30 years of experience in this fashion world and apparel and tailoring. Actually, I started 30 years ago, so maybe I looks like a young person. And it was in 1990 when I started and I started working. I just, I was a kid, you know, just 15 years old when I started. Yeah.
Emily Lane 02:50
Was this a legacy? Were you a part of a family that were tailors? or How? Yeah, what led you there?
Valentin 02:57
Yeah, that's interesting question, because actually, I my grandfather was a tailor. And also my grandmother from my dad's side He also he also was the tailor. And but actually, I didn't, I never met my grand father, because he passed away when he was very young. And after war. After the war, he just passed away a few years ago, a few years after the war, he passed away. So I didn't meet him. But I think it was a kind of DNA. So even from the age of 14, maybe so I discovered my interest in in this field. So I wanted to know how to sew things. And I played with the actual, the sewing machine of my grandfather. And, yeah, it was a manual, manual machine. And maybe with the feet extension, I don't remember exactly. Yeah.
Emily Lane 04:06
I love how much that you were, that was your play.
Valentin 04:10
Yeah, but was it purpose as you know, it was, it was a kind of inner voice, that I felt that that's what I want to do. That's what I want to to develop as my profession. And at the age of 15, as I said, so I started working in in a place as an kind of intern. This place was doing made to measure garments, with the team of tailors, and, and, and pattern makers. So, I started working there, and I worked there for two years, and I made pants and I learned how to sew pants and costumes and I'm in the jackets, as well. And after this experience experience, it was a quite good experience, you know, for me, and we moved to Israel, so and then it was a very interesting times, you know, when the Soviet Union collapsed, and at this age, you know, at this wave of, of immigration, we move to Israel, and we certainly
Bret Schnitker 05:31
And you move from where Valentin?
Valentin 05:33
Sorry?
Bret Schnitker 05:34
You moved from where?
Valentin 05:36
Yeah. So I was born in Baku and then grown up in Baku, the capital of Azerbaijan. It's, yeah. Yeah. And in this case, yeah, I want to say that it was quite, poor environment where, when you don't really had, you know, all these trends that we have today, kind of do it yourself and upcycling and tailoring and made to measure
Bret Schnitker 06:05
you're doing on demand manufacturing before it was you know innovative, right?
Valentin 06:10
Yeah. And it was a kind of norm there, because we don't really have an other option available. So if you want to make something so just do it yourself. So if you want to, you know, to fix your bicycle, do it yourself if you want to, to make the pants and to fix the pants and trousers, so just do it yourself. So and it was very popular. And because actually then the foreign brands, it was super expensive. It was kind of luxury just, you know, the buyer of jeans, it was kind of flagship for, for Soviet people, you know, to have, yeah, to have jeans. Yeah. And when we moved to Israel, I also worked as a you know, as a tailor. And also I work in factory. Here, you know, making I remember that I made 300 welt pockets in a day, it was a no
Emily Lane 07:13
Oh my gosh, wow.
Valentin 07:15
Yeah, it was kind of fast. So I know this industry from from, from its roots.
Bret Schnitker 07:22
So you have this very classical start to your business. And then, you know, what attracted us to you and then learning the relationships that we all share, how did you move from this very classical foundation to 3D? Which, you know, you you are sort of one of the pioneers of 3D in the apparel business, really. Or at least involved with some of those.
Emily Lane 07:47
Having started in, what, 2004?
Bret Schnitker 07:49
I think so.
Valentin 07:50
Yeah. So, till 2004. So, the pivot point was when I made the Browzwear, when I start working in Browzwear, 3D software company, they developed 3D software simulation for clothes. So they was quite, not quite, but they were really pioneers in this field. They are, though, the first that actually said, "Okay, let's do clothes in 3D." So it it was revolutionary approach at those days, and accidentally, actually, I found the, you know, the announcement in newspaper, it was, we have an internet, but, you know, at those days, I found the announcement in newspapers that they are looking for, that they are looking to hire people that know how to make patterns, pattern-makers. And the benefit if if this pattern maker would have the experience in, in CAD system, like collector will get a bit of something. So I applied and and when I had my first interview, I saw, you know, this 3D avatar on the screen, and it was really amazing. So it just was crazy to see this technology, even at this, you know, early stages. We cannot compare what it was in 2004. And today, but it was quite amazing. So I saw the whole potential of this, of this thing. I didn't even know that this kind of software exists. So.
Emily Lane 09:37
Well, yeah, it hadn't been up until then. You know, it was a really, really cutting edge.
Bret Schnitker 09:42
Well in 2004. And when you really look back, it's you know, your phones had just started slimming down. There wasn't all the technology we live with and take for granted today. Just that few years ago, 16-17 years ago, it was totally different world. So this is pretty remarkable.
Emily Lane 10:02
We had the birth of Facebook, the birth of the iPod, you know, things like cell phones, we're just starting to get cameras, very modest camera
Bret Schnitker 10:11
We actually used phones to call people. Crazy, actually way back then.
Emily Lane 10:18
Right. So yeah, it was a real transitional point in time. I'm curious, Valentin, as you started, you know, view, as you went from this really tactile world of, you know, of tailoring and working with patterns and, and sewing and then moving into this digital space, what were some of the kind of benefits that you saw right away from application of this technology?
Valentin 10:46
You know, this, the first idea of this application, it was just kind of general idea, let's do everything in 3D. And let's, let's resolve all the problems that we have, you know, in, in, in fashion world, so I was, I, when I walked in Browzwear, I will describe, you know, 3D technology as something that you can do fittings, you can do merchandising, you can do almost everything with this software, and maybe it wasn't kind of a mistake, you know, to, to say these things and to, you know, to suggest kind of tangible solution. And the people that actually go with that, you know, into the pilots and the big companies like, like Gap, for example, they, what, we found that this stage, they they didn't were really prepared for for this technology those days. So, as in, you know, I think that the technology also wasn't so prepared for the industry at those days. So it's, so it's a kind of mutual evolution that can occur before you know, before, then it will get the approval, approval of the fashion world so.
Bret Schnitker 12:12
Well, and sometimes technology moves faster than our brains can assimilate that technology to.
Valentin 12:19
Yeah, that's, that's right. But, you know, it's each technology, you know, you need to have the approval of the users that should use this technology. So and then those days, you know, you will not find so many users that actually sees the potential of this technology. And it's, it's only the proof that kind of everything will happen, and each day and time. So that's important to be, you know, in the right place in the right time, but you own also need to be prepared for this day, you know? Yeah.
Bret Schnitker 12:58
Right, exactly. I mean, you being a visionary, and what you're doing today, you're taking sort of those steps yourself, you know, where we're just getting a handle on 3D technology as its application and actual garments. And what you're doing today seems like this next step, you know, is the consumer, is the consumer ready for that? You know?
Valentin 13:23
It's a very good question. I think what, what I'm doing today to kind of novel, and I'm trying to tell, to take this technology to the next step, you know, and, in the industry, it's a kind of, you know, consensus now, that 3D over the years, you know, for the pattern development, and for the fitting, it's, it's inside the industry. It's not like in 2004. And what I'm trying to do today, it's digital fashion, actually, it's the basic term of this, it's that it's not necessary to be in the physical world, it can stay only in, in the virtual realm. So that's the sad thing. But maybe before we have jammed, you know, what I'm doing today, I want to tell you a few words about my experience with 3D.
Bret Schnitker 14:26
Love to hear it.
Valentin 14:27
And we're working with the fashion designers. So when I worked in Browzwear and when I in 2007, I established my own studio. Giving services for the fashion designers and runnway designers and very, very creative people. So and at some stage, I used 3D actually, but not every day. Okay. I mean, 3D I use 2D of Browzwear every day. So button On the 3D. And another viewpoint occurs when I met Ed Minor, the fashion designer LVMH Prize winner. And he was after his studies here in Beit Hillel. So he came to me and actually, I, I helped him to develop all his patterns and blogs, to digitize all his blogs, and to develop all his, you know, new collections. And he was working in kind of very unique way. So he worked without sketches. Without you know, specs, without, he just came with an kind of an idea or story concept. So, and when he first started to describe what he want, actually, so, I'm very visual person, you know, I need to see so so I said, "Hey, just give me a reference, give me some reference point, some some visuals that I can work with. Okay? What what I can start with." But he spoke with me and all about body language and balance this balance on only stuff that I don't really understand. So how I can develop something from this story. Okay, I need to see the same reference. And, and I say, "okay, so maybe we'll get, maybe, maybe we'll give the chance to 3D in this case."
Bret Schnitker 15:20
So think 3D is a collaborative tool, something that, you know, moves along the path, where both of you interact to achieve this kind of goal that that ad had.
Valentin 16:54
Yeah, exactly. So so. And we started to collect kind of for meetings and sessions, when we just sat together in front of the computer, and we develop new styles. And it was very interactive, it was very dynamic, it was very novel. So.
Bret Schnitker 17:17
Did you find it move faster than the traditional method of paper patterns, of course, and then garments and reinterpreting garments? This is a space that you can really afford to experiment a hell of a lot more than it would be, I guess, a lot more, a lot less costly. And you could correct, you know, evolutions more readily in 3D environment.
Valentin 17:40
Yeah, so if I compare, you know, it, it will be maybe, you know, 5, maybe 10 times faster, but the speed, it's not the only thing that you can extract for from 3D. Because, actually, when you work in 3D, then the immediate feedback feedback that you see on the screen,
Bret Schnitker 18:04
Yes.
Valentin 18:04
and your decision making about this variation of that variation, so you can change and play and change pattern and, you know, make it longer shorter. And that's a, that makes a big difference. You don't need to wait, you know, two weeks for the portal, right? And, and then you and then you actually, when you get, you know, in the in the real life, you when you get this part from the factory from you know, you can really forget what it was actually what it was about, you know, and in, in this situation when you walk in 3D. It's really dynamic. And you have so many benefits there. And the process, it's just it's very, very fluid.
Bret Schnitker 19:02
Yeah.
Emily Lane 19:03
So from the time that he came to you with kind of these concepts, how long did it then take you to go from concept to runway?
Valentin 19:13
Wow, it's now a story about the runway there. So his first runway was in 2016. And we already have kind of an experience with 3D and developing patterns in 3D. So we decided to develop all collection in 3D. And it was a time pressure there before before we actually finalized all our, all our his, his designs in 3D. And actually what happened he took all this collection I mean, patterns develop in 3D and he made the first prototypes and and those first prototypes went directly the runway without anything
Bret Schnitker 20:04
No, no major adjustments, anything.
Emily Lane 20:07
That is absolutely astounding.
Bret Schnitker 20:11
Like, there's no time pressure ever in this business, right? We live that every single day. And, and it's kind of a wild thought to say, you know, I see it every day here. I mean, I see that when our designers are working in 3D and developing those patterns, this this kind of handshake between the technical aspect and the visual aspect of the 3D environment. And, you know, we've come to trust the result. You know, one of the conversations we had earlier, as, you know, when you were launching this with Ed, and Ed was kind of like, "Hey, I embrace it, I'm gonna go, you know, launch this on the runway and move directly to patterns." You had this moment of challenge, because of your background, why don't you talk about that a little bit?
Valentin 20:56
Yeah because actually, because I have such a long background in traditional pattern making and product development. So at this point, I understand that it was he took all his, you know, patterns directly to runway. So it was just kind of crazy for me. And I said, I understood that he, he has a lot of confidence in 3D. So he just what he saw on the screen, okay, it was kind of dissimilar what to his expectations of what to expect, you know, and understand that he actually have more confidence in 3D that I had this. Yeah, and that's the funny thing. But it was kind of an aha moment. Okay, now I can test this technology, despite all the experience that I have. So, you know, it's like, you have a tool. And the, then you need to pull this tool. And this moment was kind of that I get the pull of this tool that it works. Okay. Yeah. And he's in, I said to him, you know, maybe you just make few samples, you know, the complicated ones. Yeah. So just to make sure that we're there, that it, okay. And he said, "should I?" And I saw he just lost his confidence for a few seconds. But I said you know, what, "It will be okay." And it was great. You know, it was great. When I saw it on the runway in Paris, it was just great. So, and, as I said, for me, it was kind of pure form.
Bret Schnitker 22:55
Yeah. I mean, it's just kind of, when you think through that whole thought process, here, you're the partner in the creation with all of this experience in 3D, your brain should be telling you more than anyone else, that the result should be the result. Right? And because of this traditional background that you're dealing with, you've got this conflict in your head about, you know, is that really going to be the result? Is it really this easy? And I think today for many customers and clients and designers that are walking into this 3D space, they ask those same questions. And to know that that conversation has been going on really, basically since 2004, maybe a little bit before and the radical transformation that we're seeing in the landscape of 3D design, there's still this kind of disconnect and trust that what we're doing at a digital landscape will come out in this tactile real world.
Emily Lane 23:51
Yeah, well, I think that's what's really interesting, Valentin, another point of interest with you is that you know, you've had this kind of inner conflict early on as many designers do and many others in the industry of going from this very physical you know, tactile world to to a virtual world. But then you like you've decided to really dive in even deeper and go into digital clothing, which I think you know, given this time of Zoom land and you know, COVID times and all of these things, I can see how that evolution makes a lot of sense what what really inspired you to go well I'm in it and I'm going to go even further with it and start designing clothes for just the digital world?
Valentin 24:38
Yeah, you know, the first idea was to create kind of to design things in 3D and maybe to open the brand and to produce the physical garments, but on some stage I made actually few, you know, few trials and and samples with the digital printing. But at some point, I saw that what what actually gives you 3D and designing 3D, it's unlimited freedom, unlimited creative freedom. Because actually, you don't need to think how it will be translated into physical world, if I, if I decide, you know, to stay to keep it only in 3D, so it, it's not anymore, you know, my problem how it would be translated into physical world and then I get actually the unlimited freedom of design so I can try everything. And I can, I can combine any software with any software. And I can do things and just asking my inner compass if it works or not. Then okay, and then I get the approval of my inner compass. So and I feel the design. So it kind of fueled maybe more than two iterations. And then I see, okay, we get it.
Bret Schnitker 26:18
We get we talk so much about, you know, this evolution into this virtual landscape with VR augmented AR augmented reality that's occurring, the time that were spent on Zoom, where they're, you know, talking about masking the advent of LIDAR technology into our phones. I mean, I really think that your visionary and approach, you know, in approaching this, this digital landscape, and I think it's so timely, you know, we talk about, you know, I think it's, I think it's really funny that you talk about sustainability, you know, we don't see pixels, filling landfills, the ultimate sustainable,
Emily Lane 26:56
Very organic.
Bret Schnitker 26:59
And but, you know, you kind of see that tongue in cheek conversation, but you absolutely see the applications today. We're all on zoom, you know, hey, you can get up with a T shirt, you can click a button, all of a sudden, you're in a wonderful couture designer suit. And, and, and you understanding that point of view, and starting to trade these collections that are moving pieces of art. You know, as designers, you know, we always think that designers in apparel are really different than artists, and I don't see this this difference. I think that, you know, designers in the apparel field are simply artists, they don't paint with paint brushes, traditionally, they paint with, you know, apparel, pieces of fabric, things like that.
Emily Lane 27:46
And now the digital, right?
Bret Schnitker 27:47
The digital world, right? And, and so I think it's interesting, the evolution and the move that you've made, you know, what do you see? How do you see? And how are you being embraced as you're launching your, your digital collections for people to upload their body types and you to kind of outfit them? Or, you know, what's the age group? And? And what's the reception? You know, are they seeing that you're, what, at what point of evolutionary thinking? Are they looking at this? Is this just kind of a gimmick for them? Or do they really see the applications that are going to take place?
Valentin 27:55
you know, because I really in the stage, that it's still very novel, it's kind of incubator stage. So I'm trying a lot of things, but I already can say that I see a lot of potential in this application of 3D fashion in so many aspects. First of all, for the influencers, the people that really need every single day, the new outfit. But in addition to this, maybe my next challenge will be you know, how I'm taking this approach to the masses, how? You know, because today I'm doing, you know, kind of digital fashion and taking the pictures of people send me the pictures of themselves, and I'm dressing them into my digital design. Okay. And usually, actually, also, I found out that I would have kind of few challenges here because not all the people really like you know, to take the pictures and to send them and they, they have kind of issues that, some of them. But maybe, you know, all of them, not all of them but the most of the peoples have kind of issue about you know, sending their own pictures.
Bret Schnitker 30:00
You mean self image or, like, themselves for what they are in a digital world or?
Valentin 30:08
Yeah, yeah. And I found myself, you know, trying to, to reach these people and to say, you know what, this digital garment can have also the value for you. Okay, and you will experience kind of an emotional feeling about what you wear as a digital garment.
Bret Schnitker 30:36
You certainly have a lot more creativity in this digital space. And I think, you know, one of the, the additional applications I can absolutely see happening is in the gaming world. People, Gen Z, you know, how millennials, whatever, they're spending a hell of a lot of time in the gaming world, and that gaming world is evolving. The virtual reality meets gaming, the augmented reality meets gaming. I think, eventually, we're going to see that you're going to build an avatar, that's your own avatar, that's basically who you want to be. And that's going to carry with you through all the video games that you see. And therefore, there's gonna be this opportunity where online, you know, downloads of digital clothing can happen as a reality. And as a manufacturer, I'm all for it. Digital manufacturing sounds a lot easier than traditional clothing manufacturing, for sure.
Emily Lane 31:29
And I even beyond gaming, like, you know, augmented reality. Sure, you know, showing up in a virtual conference room from anywhere in the world.
Bret Schnitker 31:38
Yeah, Bill Gates, you know, we say that adversity breeds creativity, I say adversity breeds technology. And what's happening now is we're kind of moving down this whole world and, and meeting each other through zoom or teams, or, you know, I won't leave all the other systems out. But even Bill Gates says that technology is going to rapidly evolve, based upon this demand cycle, and the acceptance of what's happening. So as we're embracing the digital world as augmented reality, and there's a lot of these new glasses that are coming out, well, we'll slip on the glass and how Valentino will feel like we're in the same room, we're gonna be sitting in the same room. The ability to digitally clothe someone is not that far of a stretch today, I really think that you're being very visionary in some of this, some of this concepting that you're working on.
Emily Lane 32:24
Here's my question about it in this digital world, how do you protect your your art? How do you protect your designs?
Bret Schnitker 32:34
That's a good question.
Valentin 32:36
Yeah, you know, I don't have so much experience in this, but I, I saw some attempt, you know, an interest in blockchain technologies, and companies that they put their eyes on, on digital fashion, and they try to develop and to collaborate and to they also see the big potential in digital fashion. And they have the platforms that would be able to provide this unique code to each design and to, to allow two people to own digital clothing, you know, as a unique digital clothing in their collections and as their property. Because they really have the tools, how to protect these digital signs. And to make they unique signature to each of them.
Emily Lane 33:40
That is so interesting. I think about kind of the long term viability of the digital clothing. I mean, we've got things now where you got upcycling, and you have, you know, vintage clothing, and you know, but very rarely does an actual garment, gain value over time. But I can see with combining this kind of digital art space and you know, the, the the blend between an artist and a fashion designer in creating this garment in the general digital virtual world, you know, it's not going to go through the wear and tear that a traditional garment does.
Bret Schnitker 34:17
And think how much less I'm going to wash. Those clothes.
Emily Lane 34:20
Far more sustainable. Yeah, so I can actually see an opportunity for a garment, a digital garment to increase in value over time as the designers presence in the world gets more celebrated.
Bret Schnitker 34:34
And we should probably worry about the stock and detergents today cause upload your next garment right? How wild is that?
Emily Lane 34:44
What do you see as some of the challenges the in front of us with regards to making that transition from here to there?
Valentin 34:55
I think it will always be kind of tension between the physical and digital. And at the end of the day, maybe we will get some kind of balanced proportion between those two goals. But, you know, fashion actually lost, its, you know, basic purpose when it was just, you know, take something to cover the body. And it's much more than this route, it's a visual out. And I think the the stage that we get, you know, in terms of fast fashion and sustainability, and all the negative impact that fashion, let's face it, has on this world. So I think that the potential of digital fashion that it can replace the fast fashion formula. And I think that we need to kind of get back to lost value for the garment. And that's what I wrote in my last article that were kind of in the stage that devalues transition, the transition of values. It means we get to the point that the negative impact of the fashion industry, such a big issue today, the issue of sustainability, you know, just in terms of how much water you need just to produce one t shirt or one pair of jeans. So I think that really, digital fashion has a potential, you know, to replace the, the fast fashion, one day.
Bret Schnitker 37:02
I and I certainly think in certain steps, it it's going to augment, you know, actual fashion in certain areas. I think it's really exciting, this kind of journey that you're going down the struggle that you kind of deal with between the virtual world and the digital world. And, you know, at the same time, this being this visionary, I think, in this space, you know, we look at your website, we we look at the things that you're doing, I think you're really expressing things creative creatively. We have another episode really talking about the rise of the boutique culture. And it's about these visionaries and artists kind of really re-embracing, you know, the apparel scene. And I think that's really critical with what's going on today. And we all have to wrestle with, you know, the issues of sustainability and, and you know, how to get that to a size that it's impactful on a global scale. And I think that you're certainly doing your part on all those fronts. And we look forward to seeing what's happening in your collections and your evolution certainly coming up. You know, one of the last points that I think we should discuss, because I know that you're, you're starting to, you know, in Israel starting to teach the next generation. One of the big challenges we saw in 3D was, there's just so few people that have the education in this rapidly evolving technology, that there's no one to teach the generations to do that. How do you, you know, how is that experience going for you in Israel? How do you think that we can expand the awareness and the education of 3D design in apparel?
Valentin 38:45
You know, finally, in the upcoming semester, I'm going to start teaching the 3D fashion design in one of the leading fashion schools in Israel, WIZO in Haifa. And I'm really looking forward for this experience, because I waited for this moment for such a long time. And also it was kind of a journey that you know, to, to get there. Because the management of the school and all other professors, they had kind of attitude that we don't really need this, you know, but I'm very happy that it's going to be you know, that my dream come true. And I think I will be much more smarter after the first semester. But you know, but already I can say you that they're my students. It's a it's a third grade students that will take this course. They are really excited. I know most of them because I met them in the previous in the previous years in the day first and second grade so so they're so excited and they so really excited and they wait for this day very look forward to this course.
Bret Schnitker 40:23
Yeah, and I think it's critical. We attacked a little earlier in this podcast. And we spoke to Sharon in Singapore. A couple days ago, the current owner of Browzwear and and certainly a visionary in her own right about the benefits for designers to design in 3D. She said that, you know, in the traditional method, there's a lot of costs that go into the traditional development of a garment
Emily Lane 40:47
Cost and time and time.
Bret Schnitker 40:49
And time! But you know, students you know, eating ramen noodles, trying to decide whether they're going to spend $100 in supplies to make something that they have to kind of eliminate and start over
Emily Lane 40:59
Learn from, right?
Bret Schnitker 41:00
In a digital world, you can to your point, you can make a lot of these interpretive discoveries, and you can evolve your design at no cost, right? And then ultimately apply that to the real world. So really really exciting.
Emily Lane 41:14
Allows for more creative freedom, and exploration.
Bret Schnitker 41:16
Yes, I think so.
Emily Lane 41:17
Yeah. Well, we definitely have an exciting time in this creative world we're in so thank you, Valentin for joining us today, we'll make sure that we share your website on our socials and on our show notes. If this particular area of of 3D technology is of interest to you, we do have another episode technology's influence on the fashion industry. Make sure to check that out. Find us on all socials @clothingcoulture and @starsdesigngroup, and subscribe to stay apprised of upcoming episodes of Clothing Coulture.
Bret Schnitker 41:52
Thank you!
Valentin 41:53
Thank you very much!
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